The British armed forces work with the US military to evacuate eligible civilians and their families out of Afghanistan on August 21, 2021 in Kabul, Afghanistan. Photo: AFP

Editor's Note:

It's almost been one year since the US withdrawal debacle in Afghanistan, during which time this war-torn country has suffered and changed a lot. What are the changes of the Afghan people's attitude toward the US and the US military after the war? Instead of trying to embezzle Afghan resources like the US did, China has offered emergency aid to Afghanistan and maintained communication with the Taliban. How should we view the two different approaches by China and the US in developing ties with post-withdrawal Afghanistan? Global Times (GT) reporter Wang Wenwen talked to Hamid Karzai (Karzai), former Afghan president, over these issues.

GT: How would you describe the changes in Afghanistan you have witnessed during the one year's time? What is your biggest feeling toward your country?

Karzai: It is sad that the US presence in Afghanistan failed to capitalize or use properly the goodwill of the international community and the support of the Afghan people for the peace process that they conducted, which led to the debacle of their withdrawal. Unfortunately, the manner of withdrawal itself was dishonorable to the people of Afghanistan and to the people of the United States. To describe it all in short - extremely tragic and saddening.

As for the changes in Afghanistan, in terms of overall security and the end of major conflict, it has been positive. The Afghans are not dying anymore in those large numbers in which we were losing many lives daily previously. But in terms of political stability and economic viability, in terms of the country finding its place in the international community with our flag flying high around the world, no, we have not done well.

GT: You once called Biden's order to unfreeze Afghan assets for 9/11 victim families atrocity. How are the assets being used? As far as you know, does the US plan to return the $7 billion Afghan assets? What efforts does Afghanistan make to get back the Afghan assets?

Karzai: That is one of the biggest losses to us of the failure of the peace process. The leaving of the government from Kabul, the arrival of the Taliban without the conclusion of the peace process led to immensely negative consequences for Afghanistan.

The seizure of $7 billion dollars of Afghan reserves is wrong and not acceptable to the Afghan people. This is Afghan money - owned and belonging to the Afghan people. We don't want this money to be split into two halves as the US is saying now.

Afghanistan was not, in any case, involved in the tragedy of September 11. Rather, Afghanistan itself has been a victim of terrorism. We are more a victim than any other country in the world. The United States cannot take money from one victim to give it to another victim. We deserve the return of all of our money back.   

But it doesn't mean that once that money comes back to Afghanistan, it should be spent by the current government or any other government. That money belongs to the Afghan people as surety for the strength of our currency, the afghani. It should be kept as our national reserves.

Hamid Karzai Photo: VCG

GT: The Afghan people once offered huge support to the US presence in Afghanistan. But the ending of the Afghan war is an enormous suffering to the Afghan people. What are the changes of the Afghan people's attitude toward the US and the US military after the war?

Karzai: Yes, the Afghan people offered huge support to US and allies presence in Afghanistan. A lot of disappointment, a lot of anger, at the way things were conducted when they were here and then the way they withdrew from Afghanistan. Imagine the scenes at the airport, imagine the chaos that was created, imagine the way the Afghan state collapsed, the loss of the army, the loss of the forces, the loss of the institutions, the loss of our military equipment. That's something that Afghans are extremely angry about. So the US has a responsibility toward Afghanistan to make sure that Afghanistan does not suffer anymore. First is to return Afghanistan's resources and second is to make sure that they engage with Afghanistan in a manner that is beneficial to both the Afghan people and the United States. We want to have good relations with the United States of America, but that relationship must be based on mutual respect and mutual interest. 

We Afghans must take our own responsibility as well. We must work for the stability and wellbeing of our country by strengthening our unity and by serving and protecting it. The government should be representing all the people of Afghanistan and adopt policies promoting the aspirations of our people and keep the country safe from extremism and terrorism.

GT: Only a few months after the hasty US withdrawal from Afghanistan, the US is mired in the Ukraine crisis. Many think the US is turning Ukraine into another Afghanistan. What's your take?

Karzai: We have an experience in that and I have already spoken about it and called upon the Ukrainian leadership to learn from the sufferings of Afghanistan. During the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan 40 years ago and during the height of the Cold War, on the one hand, Afghanistan was struggling for liberation but on the other hand, Afghanistan was used in the rivalry of the Cold War. Both sides got us hurt and made us suffer.

Ukraine must understand that they must not get stepped over by wrong policies in the conflict between huge powers and that their interest is in making sure that they live peacefully in the region that they belong to and not get involved in superpower politics in which the only loser will be Ukraine as was Afghanistan during the Cold War.

GT: The disgraceful role of NATO is behind the two decades of US military's occupation of Afghanistan. Now in Europe, NATO is intensifying the conflict between Russia and Europe and trying to extend to Asia. As an Afghan that has experienced the NATO-led war, how do you comment on the role and impact of this military alliance?

Karzai: The chaotic withdrawal, as it happened, reflects negatively. The military aspect of the US and NATO presence in Afghanistan was a failure by all accounts and led to our suffering.

GT: How do you see the two different approaches by China and the US in developing ties with post-withdrawal Afghanistan?

Karzai: The Chinese and the US examples are two different examples. The US arrival was the consequence of the tragedy of September 11 and the decision of the United Nations and the support of international community. Its presence in Afghanistan was unfortunately not capitalized on properly by the US which led to the consequences that we just talked about.

China has looked at Afghanistan from a different angle. And we expect China, as a neighbor to help bring stability and security. As a neighbor the Chinese role is very important. We want China to be a significant contributor to our stability and economic viability.

GT: Now Afghanistan faces the huge challenges of postwar reconstruction, while the world is in turbulence. What can the world do in assisting Afghanistan? What role can China play, both politically and economically?

Karzai: Afghanistan is going through immense difficulties. Our youth and our educated are leaving the country. The de facto government is not yet recognized by the international community. There are things that must be done immediately inside Afghanistan, like reopening the girls school, which is extremely important for the future of this country and also for our economy, plus a lot more.

But there are also things that the international community can do. Specifically with regard to China, China is a neighbor of Afghanistan and a superpower in our neighborhood. China can have both political and economic contributions toward Afghanistan's durable stability and wellbeing.

Politically, I have always been suggesting, even three to four years ago when the US launched its peace process in Afghanistan, to the US, to China and to Russia that the peace process better be co-authored, co- directed by the US, China and Russia, and that the three countries should work together for a genuinely effective peace process. Had that happened, Afghanistan would have been in a different, much better situation now.

Now, I'm suggesting the same - China, as a neighbor of Afghanistan and as a global power, begin to see that instability in Afghanistan has consequences for the region, especially for China, and to prevent that China can coordinate with Russia and the US and major powers in this region to launch a process that would bring political stability to Afghanistan and economic interaction between Afghanistan and the larger region.

China can also be a close friend of Pakistan, work with Pakistan for positive engagement with Afghanistan. The people of Afghanistan and the people of Pakistan are brotherly people. The Pakistani people have looked after the Afghan refugees for decades, for which we are very grateful. But there are certain issues that are of concern to Afghanistan. China can have a positive contribution in this regard.

Then there are economic projects that are extremely important for this region. They can only happen if there is stability in Afghanistan. We appreciate China's engagement with Afghanistan. We want this engagement to continue. We believe China is in the right position to help our country.

GT: US House Speaker Nancy Pelosi made a visit to Taiwan. What do you think of the US interference in the Taiwan Straits? Afghanistan paid huge costs to the US meddling. What lessons could Afghanistan give to Taiwan?

Karzai: Afghanistan firmly stands by one-China policy and is fully and entirely committed to the territorial integrity of our neighbor China. This has been the steadfast stand of Afghanistan from the very establishment of Afghanistan-China diplomatic relation. All aspects of our relation with China are pillared upon one-China policy, so this is our stand in all our international interactions.

We strongly believe in the pursuit of the same policy in relations between China and other countries viewing it as profoundly important for world peace and harmony.