Photos: VCG

Editor's Note:

The 2024 Imperial Springs International Forum was held in Madrid, Spain on December 11-12. With the theme of "Collective Action for One Future," the forum brought together people of insight from all over the world to discuss many issues influencing world peace and stability. On the sidelines of the forum, Global Times (GT) reporter Wang Wenwen talked with Csaba Korosi (Korosi), a Hungarian diplomat who served as president of the 77th United Nations General Assembly, to discuss his understanding of the theme of this year's forum and the need for global cooperation.

GT: The theme of this year's forum is "Collective Action for One Future." What is your understanding of this theme?

Korosi: In order to understand the deeper meaning of this theme, let's think about what the nature of the current crisis we have in the world is. It is my understanding that there is a dual nature. We have geopolitical competition, which, one way or the other, will stay with us, and we also have an emerging, multifaceted crisis, mostly stemming from our non-sustainable way of operations. What is the difference between the two? Geopolitical competition is traditionally driven by a zero-sum game, while the non-sustainable way of operations is typically related to the global common goods that require global cooperation. 

Unfortunately, now, the zero-sum game mentality is starting to overshadow the necessity of global cooperation on global common goods. The result is a lose-lose game. So it cannot be an alternative for us. It cannot be an acceptable outcome for us. Our responsibility is the collective action, where we can still have a kind of race, but where we have to find the ways of cooperation. 

GT: How will the forum promote understanding among countries and global cooperation? 

Korosi: This world is going through tectonic changes. In times of tectonic changes, we need cooperation more than ever. We need rules. We need workable institutions. The institution architecture is undergoing significant changes. Most probably there will be difficult debates about how to make it and who should gain more from it. But we all need a workable, multilateral order. It is in the interest of China, the US, Africa and Europe. 

For hundreds of years, our societies were driven by rules. We used to operate in our societies. The rules, be it imperial decrees, royal decrees, laws, the government decrees, were guiding our actions. But in the last 20 years, in most countries in the world, we understood that even if we follow the rules, we may go into peril, because we started changing the conditions of life on Earth. We started creating goals, goals for sustainable development, goals for climate, goals for biodiversity. 

Now, what is the problem? We created goals to change the course of development, but we probably, in most cases, are still driven by our older rules. Some of the rules and some of the goals are in contradiction. Obviously, we will have to change some of our rules, in order to serve better our societies. It will not be easy, but it is a task we have to do. The Imperial Springs International Forum has always been a very inspiring forum for these discussions. 

GT: Some countries see multilateralism as a challenge to their national interest. What is your opinion of this viewpoint?

Korosi: Multilateralism was invented many years ago, way before the United Nations, in order to coordinate among national interests, and in order to fix things that can only be managed through broad cooperation, which goes way beyond the bilateral relations. That amount of problematic issues that requires global cooperation is growing. 

Today, more people die because of environmental reasons, because of climatic reasons, because of natural hazards and natural disasters than wars, despite the fact that we have more wars today than any time after the second World War. So, I would say that, we need more well-functioning multilateralism, now more than ever. 

There are strong voices in many countries that would say that my interests are not represented well enough on the multilateral platforms. But it does not mean that we don't need multilateralism. It means that it's time to sit down. It's time to think how we are going to change some of the institutions and some of the rules of the institutions, and how we are going to follow those goals and what we agreed upon jointly.

GT: What are the major challenges facing today's world?

Korosi: On the security field, we see a very dangerous process of decomposition of the existing security arrangements in the world. It is primarily prevailing in Europe, but has a very large impact on global security issues, including disarmament, arms control, technological oversight. 

The other major challenge is that while our institutions are showing signs of weakness, the number of armed conflicts in the world are growing. As we speak, there are 56 armed conflicts going on in the world. It is a larger number since the World War II. There is another strange phenomenon that local wars are becoming more international. In the last 20 years, the international components of the local or civil wars have increased sharply. 

We are in a very dangerous situation, not only in terms of traditional security - armed conflicts and social clashes - but we are having, as I mentioned at the beginning of our interview, a crisis stemming from the non-sustainable way of operations. It is driving populations out of their homes. It is causing social fractions, and it is causing unbearable burdens for traditional, social and institutional structures in a number of countries. So if we cannot join hands, a number of countries will collapse very soon. That should be prevented. 

GT: The EU has decided to impose tariffs on Chinese EVs. Your country, Hungary, has worked extensively with China on EVs, and opposes this move of the EU. What do you think of this move by the EU? 

Korosi: I don't like sanctions. I don't think sanctions can really solve outstanding problems. They are not the best tools for settling differences. The EU is trying to protect its industries. There are very strict environmental and labor law regulations in the European Union. They come with costs. It means that to produce the same products in Europe, be it food or other industrial products, it must face a lot more regulations, a lot more restrictions, a lot more costs than in some other countries. It also means that the European producers may face competition difficulties on the same markets. But still, I believe that there could be and there should be a negotiated agreement between the European Union and China. I hope we are not going to go further down the road of a trade war. It would not help anybody. It would not help the European industries, and it would not help the economy of China either. 

GT: How do you foresee China-US relations with the incoming new US administration?

Korosi: We are talking about the two leaders of the world, the two most powerful countries in terms of economy, finances, technology and sciences. Whatever happens between the two countries will have a major impact on the rest of the world. But let me give you my best expectation: It is not going to be a Cold War 2.0. 

The Cold War, as we knew it in the past between the US and the Soviet Union, was a very different nature. That Cold War was driven by the logic of the so-called mutually assured destruction. And the objective of the competition was to subdue or even destroy the others. I see now a quest between the US and China for a very different outcome, which is mutually assured survival. That should be a promise for the rest of the world. 

In the key areas, I hope there will be a modus operandi between the two nations. That is the request of the world as well. I was in the Paris climate summit in 2015. The summit was a breakthrough, but not everybody knows that this breakthrough became possible because there was a prior Chinese-American agreement. If we can repeat that on the big debated issues, some kind of modus operandi between the US and China, it will be an inspiration for the rest of the world.